Friday, September 30, 2005

Republicans Take Stance on Race

Republicans on race:

"If you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down."

William Bennett, Former Education Secretary under Reagan, Former Drug Czar under GH Bush and Fox News contributor.

Is this what they mean by compassionate conservative?

www.mediamatters.org/static/audio/bennett-200509280006.mp3

43 comments:

Nölff said...

He is NOT compasionate. He eats Jew baby hearts.

laurzeilei said...

You mean America's NUMBER ONE moral crusader would say such a thing?! Say it ain't so. Bennett's not even a half-wit. That's giving him waaaaaaay too much credit. Glad I stopped in here today...I would've missed this. I'm too busy sinning (gambling not included) to catch all the up-to-the-minute news.

Two Minutes J said...

Yea sometimes I feel this way about christians. Apparentely Jesus wasn't much of a tipper. Alot of the Christians that come to the hotel I work at have to break their bank just to give me a dollar...And I can remember waiting tables a while ago and sometimes they would leave a folded up $20 bill on the table. You'd come up to it thinking, 'hey allright', but once you unfolded it, it says some bullshit like 'Your tip for eternal salvation is to give yourself to the lord' or some shit. Yea, fuckin assholes.

Fast Eddie said...

toad867-5309- please take down the travel guide ad page for Long Island....


"THE RACE MASTER"

Just to be fair he, Bennet, did take the route of using a book called Freakanomics< or something there of> as a way to race bait his "steadfast" audience and are you really sure He knew others would listen to his broadcast. Then amply put his ideals at the forefront of a current debate about a natural disaster and the Goverments lack of basically doing its job. I believe this is Mr. Bennet taking one for the team accusing a Left-leaning book as being too controversial and insensitive ... you know that bleeding heart thing is now being co-opted by those leaning right.
I BELIEVE MR. BENNET KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS SAYING ....AND IN THE NEXT SENTENCE saying--- Of course that would be reprehensible...Than why even say it Mr. Bennet if you did not think it to be true. Poor comes in every color Mr. Bennet and your understanding of society both morally and ethically just are extremely lacking as well. But I will not let those on the left get off the hook for using abortion as a tool for its agenda as well. I just believe MAN has no right infringing on the rights of WOMAN.

Edward Coogan

NewsBlog 5000 said...

If Rick James had been aborted, Eddy and Charlie would still have that couch.

Tom Harper said...

Bennett didn't mean it. He didn't know what he was saying. He was all dizzy and disoriented after his 5-day gambling binge.

jon said...

After we paid for our kids filmmaking summer camp we found it tough to recover! I totally agree with you!

indygirl said...

Abortion would have saved the expense of "filmmaking summer camp."

Justin said...

The guy took your abortion == less crime to the extreme and points out how abusrd and dangerous making that argument is.

He's the loon?

Toad734 said...

Justin:

No he didn't say that the decline in crime was partly due to abortion, he said that if you could abort every black baby you could reduce crime.

There is a difference. For one he implies that only black people commit crime, second, he was talking about making black people have abortions.

I only talk about allowing someone who doesn't want a baby to be allowed to make the choice for themselves. When the right choices are made and people aren't forced to have unwanted children the result is a decline in crime.

Karenpuppy said...

You just know that these are the guys who read Jonathan Swift and thought, "Eat your children. Hmmm, he just might be on to something."

Anonymous said...

'He implies only black people commit crime'. You are one extreme or the other in your rhetoric and point-making. This isn't the only post in which you do this. There is a grey area, but you seem to be either black and white. Kinda weird considering you also are someone who advocates the start of 'a third-party' and 'not conforming to labels', that, to me implies meeting in a grey area. Sorry to get on a soapbox.

Toad734 said...

Ya, Ok, guilty, you have me pegged, sort of. I am a very black and white guy but on issues that are typically in a gray area themselves. Just because I advocate a third party doesn't mean I wouldn't be as devoted to it and my beliefs as Reichwing Republicans and bleeding heart Democrats.

Die hard Republicans and die hard Democrats are black and white too, on their core issues. How many Republicans have a gray area on abortion? How many pro-choice Democrats have a gray area on abortion?

However, as to my comment that he implies that black people are the ones committing crimes; he does say that in not so many words.

Aberrant Templar said...

This is totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but blogger has word verification now. If you turn it on, it will get rid of those annoying "comment ads". Ugh.

-Jason

Anonymous said...

Your use of word-play baffles me. But actually, it's quite refreshing to see evasion as an art-form. Good Job on that one. Anyways, "Die hard Republicans and die hard Democrats are black and white too, on their core issues. How many Republicans have a gray area on abortion? How many pro-choice Democrats have a gray area on abortion?" --Ok for one, since die hard republicans and die hard democrats are black and white, that means you need to be too? And 2, Now I'm not sure about this, but whats their stance on 'in cases of rape or incest'? That would be a grey area. Although I'm not quite sure what the stance is on it with each party.

Toad734 said...

Some Republicans, especially moderate ones, do sometimes agree that abortions in certain situations are ok, but not the die hards as I mentioned.

Democrats clearly don't care either way.

And there are some issues that I have a gray area on but for the sake of making a point, it would be counter productive to argue with myself. Therefore, I tend to use extreme examples to make a point.

Anonymous said...

Well I'm very proud of you then.

Boiled Owl said...

From the University of Chicago Chronicle:

Aug. 12, 1999
Vol. 18 No. 20

current issue
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Chicago economist links abortion to falling crime rates
By Amy Rust
News Office


Presented at seminars at the University, Stanford and Harvard but not yet published, “Legalized Abortion and Crime,” Chicago economist Steven Levitt’s recent study that links the legalization of abortion to the country’s falling crime rate in the 1990s, already is receiving national attention.

The study, co-authored by Levitt, Professor in Economics at Chicago, and Stanford University’s John Donohue III, suggests legalized abortion may be responsible for approximately half of the crime rate’s recent fall.

According to the researchers, the decline of the U.S. crime rate may be the result of two mechanisms related to legalized abortion. First, following the Roe vs. Wade decision in 1973, more women at risk of having children who could later engage in criminal activity––teen-agers, those living in poverty or those with unwanted pregnancies, for example––opted for abortion. And second, improved maternal, familial or fetal circumstances may have led to better environments for raising children.

Levitt and Donohue stress that their findings do not carry an endorsement of abortion. “We do not take a position on abortion, and the study was not undertaken as a study of abortion, but crime,” said Levitt. “Neither is the study about race or class. Many studies have shown that children who are born unwanted have unsatisfactory outcomes, including involvement in crime.”

As evidence for their findings, the researchers point to data regarding the timing of the crime drop: the first generation of pregnancies terminated under legalized abortion would have otherwise resulted in children who reached the peak ages for criminal activity, 18 to 24, in the early 1990s. Increases in 1970s abortions by high-risk mothers may have lowered the number of potential criminals coming of age in the 1990s.

The study also reports that states such as California and New York, which legalized abortion before 1973, experienced a drop in their crime rates before the rest of the nation. Furthermore, empirical evidence suggests states with higher abortion rates have seen more dramatic decreases in crime since 1985, and those drops in crime have been concentrated among individuals under age 25 in 1997––precisely the group possibly affected by abortion legalization in 1973.

While many explanations have been given for the dramatic decline of crime during this past decade, the authors maintain in a study abstract that “each of them has difficulty explaining the timing, large magnitude, persistence and widespread nature of the drop.” The researchers also predict crime rates will continue to fall slowly for 15 to 20 more years as the full effects of legalized abortion continue.

“A better understanding of the reasons for declines in crime helps policymakers as they formulate programs to reduce crime. For instance, with lower future crime rates, there may be less need to build prisons,” Levitt said.

___________________________________

Bennett got it, but he got it wrong, Toad. It's not race, it's environment.

Toad734 said...

Agreed

BRUISER said...

What we all must really remember her is that its still all Clinton's fault because he was president when things were going well.

NewsBlog 5000 said...

There would be less poverty in the world if we could nuke Africa.

Ertuon said...

For one he implies that only black people commit crime, second, he was talking about making black people have abortions.

He's wasn't implying that only black people commit crime; he said that you could reduce crime, not annihilate it.

He wasn't encouraging the abortion of all black babies; he said that it would be a morally reprehensible thing to do. I think that pretty well clears him of any hate crime against blacks.

Boiled Owl said...

Bennett just did one of those "foot-in-mouth" things that he shouldn't have done and he probably knows it. As the article I posted suggests, abortions and lower crime rate seem to be related.

Of course, if you consider abortion a crime and if you are even more idealistic and consider the taking of hormone based contraceptives and the Plan B pill to be criminal, then the needle on Toads chart would probably be going up, not down.

It's all a matter of how you choose to look at things, I suppose. But sooner or later we're going to have to come to grips with the reality of the situation.

Overpopulation leads to human suffering and harms the social and natural environment. This is true of any species. Rabbits in Australia, Ponderosa Pines in the Black Hills National forests, kudzo plants... etc. Any species that is too successful in reproduction threatens other species as well as members of it's own kind.

Ryan said...

Gabriel-
You're right that he only said that crime could be reduced through abortion of black babies and not that this would eliminate all crime completely. But why is it that he said that you could abort every black baby to reduce crime and some other group?

Bennett was relying on the faulty assumption that stereotypes black people as the main source of crime. Not only is this scary coming from someone who used to head the education department of the federal government, but further this can be seen as a view that is held by rich white people at all of the highest levels of the country.

Nevermind that if you put in perspective the monetary values of small time robbery vs white collar corporate crime the statistics are just staggering.

I guess it makes white people feel better to rant about a welfare mother who collects two checks illegally than to open our eyes to the MILLIONS of dollars a year that goes to corporate welfare while the same big business lays off their working class employees.

In a way Bennett was right. The fact is that if any one groups children were all aborted there would certainly be a drop in crime. Its just statistics.

As I said before the problem with the statement was singling out black babies because it is thought that the source of crime is black people.

Imagine a statement from a left winger that says that you could reduce stupidity by aborting all Christian babies. Im not so sure that the same people who have come to defend Bennett wouldn't want this persons head on a stick.

Again in this case aborting christian babies WOULD reduce stupidity in the country.

Toad734 said...

If we could go back in time and abort rich white babies in Texas we could all but eliminate white collar crime and corporate corruption and fraud. It would be morally reprehensible, but white collar crime would decline.

Boiled Owl said...

The corallary of Bennett's arguement is the one nobody seems to be talking about, although you've brushed up against it, Toad.

If we criminalize all abortion and ban hormone based contraceptives and the Plan B pill, the crime rate will go up!

That's what the stats seem to indicate.

Bennet might say, "...now that might be the right thing to do morally, but your crime rate would go up."

I wonder how a statement like that would go over in the media?

Ryan said...

True true

Boiled Owl said...

Maybe Teddy Kennedy should say it! Or Ralph Nader. Or Howard Dean.

Boiled Owl said...

Who's got the grvitas here to make it sing? Barak Obama?

Neemund said...

But if we abort all [insert any race here except for black because that would obviously make you a racist to use black] babies crime would probably also go down from nothing other than having less people.

Ertuon said...

Again in this case aborting christian babies WOULD reduce stupidity in the country.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. If all Christian babies were aborted, Liberals would have nobody to exercise their minds arguing against and they'd grow kind of out of practice.

Boiled Owl said...

neemund, I'm not so sure about that. I think the crime stat is per capita. To me the point is that unwanted children grow up in environments and with attitudes more likely to produce criminal behavior than loved, well nurtured children do.

Boiled Owl said...

I've discovered that a great many fundamentalist Christians aren't really stupid.

They're brainwashed.

There is a big difference. Huge, in fact.

Stupid people can more easily be persuaded to change their minds. Blindly idealistic smart people who have been hypnotized and conditioned cannot.

It's like addiction. Lots of smart people are addicts. And they're so smart you can't convince them to change. They'll always have better reasons (or at least better speeches) than you do. They have to have "treatment."
And even then, if they're really smart, it won't work.

Toad734 said...

Neemund:

Less people doesn't mean less crime; Gary, IN has a lot less people that Des Moines, IA but a lot more crime; the same could be said comparing Chicago to NYC.

The point is, from the books and my own point of view, is that fewer unwanted babies will result in a lower crime rate. Typically unwanted poor babies; black, white, hispanic whatever.

Ryan said...

Owl- Amen. I too have sought out and found some of the most intelligent thoughtful people who happen to be Christian. Most will not even consider for a moment that the judeo christian view of humanity is in any way flawed.

You are correct. My comment was more geared towards getting all of the Bennett apologists to look at things another way that might make them understand what the left are was saying about the black babies comment.

Bennett wasn't bombthrowing, and they seem to keep asserting this point. It is well known and unnecessary. Waht he said was kinda accidental and he probably still doesn't understand the hubbub.

The point is to get the apologists to realize that the thought pattern that Bennett was using is not only antiquated and so common on the right, but highly offensive to many Americans. Let me try again...

If we eat all of the Christian babies we can reduce not only American stupidity but national hunger. Damn thats deplorable...

Boiled Owl said...

Yeah, ryan, I hear ya. As per the satire of Johnathan Swift in "A Modest Proposal" where he said that the way to solve the famine in Ireland would be for them to eat all the Irish babies. Perhaps if Bennett were known to be a humorist... or maybe if he just had a sense of humor. Hey, for that matter, what if everybody did! It probably wouldn't hurt any of us to lighten the hell up once in a while, huh?

B said...

Speaking of controlled breeding....

http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2005/10/3/223530/406

Check it out....good ol' Indiana!

Toad734 said...

More on B's post coming soon.

Mike said...

There is a difference. For one he implies that only black people commit crime, second, he was talking about making black people have abortions.

No. No, that's not it at all. What he is stating is that if you were to abort all black babies, crime would go down. Are you arguing with this statement? Is it incorrect? There is no implication that "only black people commit crime" or that we should "make black people have abortions" but he was pointing out, quite well, apparently, that it is a dangerous idea to broach. Your reaction to it proves the point nicely. I hate abortion. I do not believe "all black babies should be aborted," but the point Mr. Bennett makes is that crime would certainly go down if that were the case.....but at what expense? The cost is a much greater travesty, yes? Which is why you are "supposedly" outraged by the comment. What makes aborting ANY baby and citing the statistic that crime goes down as a result any less of an offense? Your argument doesn't make sense....

Toad734 said...

So why did he pick black babies to reduce crime? My point is that less unwanted people means that a higher percentage of children will grow up wanted, in a stable environment and combined with the reduction in population growth crime would go down; crime in general, not just for one race.

By saying you could reduce crime by aborting every black baby is indeed what would happen just as it would if you aborted every Mexican and White baby or all the above. What is wrong with his statement is that he said he didn't agree that abortion reduced the crime rate but if you did abort every black baby and not any other race, crime would be reduced but not by the fact that there were fewer unwanted people but because there are fewer black people; insinuating that black people, because of their blackness, are to blame for crime.
That is what makes him an asshole.

The DogGrrrrl said...

I agree 0 I dont see how this quote could be taken in another way or that there's any grey here. Abort black babies = reduce crime. No word twisting needed!

Why are the pontificating dont-agree people who comment always anonymous? Hmm.

SondraK said...

...............No, it's what............ we mean by people constantly...................... quoting people...................... out of context......................... and using just exerpts....

This verbage was from a book that YOU have posted on, TOaD. Shame on you. You know that and you're misleading your readers.

Toad734 said...

How..............is...............that..............? I wasn't quoting the book, and the book doesn't say anything about black babies it talks about unwanted babies not being born and that is why crime has gone down, not that there were more black babies being aborted. I would actually go out on a limb and assume that there are far more white women who get abortion than black women. I actually don't have any figures on that but it's just a guess.