Tuesday, November 15, 2005

Dover, PA Bracing for Hurricanes, Death of First Born

From CNN:
(Reuters) -- Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson told citizens of a Pennsylvania town that they had rejected God by voting their school board out of office for supporting "intelligent design" and warned them Thursday not to be surprised if disaster struck.

Yes, I know, this is old news now but Pat Robertson, the guy who called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Chavez, blamed 9/11 on the ACLU and abortions, told Orlando, FL to brace for earth quakes and hurricanes if they let people put up rainbow flags, has warned the city of Dover, PA that they will suffer God's wrath because they voted out 8 Republican school board officials who tried to introduce Christianity as science in their public school system.

Parents and the ACLU, defenders of religious liberty and the American way, sued the school board for forcing students to hear a statement saying evolution is just a theory and that intelligent design was another theory that they pulled out of their ass in order to indoctrinate the students with misinformation and replace science with Christianity, thus ignoring the 1st Amendment.

So does this mean that the school board thinks students should hear the same statements before they discuss Einstein and his "Theory" of Relativity, or that the Earth has a liquid core? After all, no one has been able to prove these "theories" 1st hand.

In related news, the Kansas school board voted 6-4 to replace science with creationism. This will probably open the door for critics of astronomy and chemistry to replace these "sciences" with astrology and alchemy respectively.

Message: PA=Smart, KS= Stupid

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Steve Abrams at the Kansas State School Board setting fire to the US flag showing his hatred of the American way, loyalty to God but not the tax payers or the outdated ideology of separation of church and state.

46 comments:

Grant said...

Mock all you want, but I'm willing to bet real money that Kansas will not be leveled by a single hurricaine or lose any skyscrapers due to terrorist attack this year. My own town of Marietta should be safe since deciding to teach the theory of evolution as argumentative and introducing creationism to the schools (Penn & Teller covered that one on their Showtime series Bullshit!).

The thing I've always wondered is why I never hear "wrath of god" being touted as the reason behind disasters in other countries. We lose a thousand people and it's due to our immorality. Another nation loses a hundred thousand and it's just a big bad storm.

Toad734 said...

I saw that one; I felt sorry for the normal rational people there who couldn't believe what was happening to our education system.

Ya, why is it that every time a bomb goes off in Israel it's just another day but when a bomb goes off here it's because we let lesbians of TV and don't live under a theocracy. You know who lived under a theocracy? Afghanistan; let me tell you how great all their lives were.

George W. Bush said...

Grant ... don't you know that all those other countries are just filled with Godless foreigners.

Ryan said...

Toad, Im not sure if you saw my post on this same Robertson utterance but I included a link to Robertson's Wikipedia entry. It really has a lot of stuff I never imagined. Robertson's deferment scored by his father so he'd never see combat and only serve in the officers club to keep the liquor cabinet full. Allegations of prostitutes and sexual harassment brought by his fellow soldiers. Not that Im surprised, because it all seems to make sense...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_robertson

Thats the link for the entry to Marion Gordon Robertson, yeah he calls himself Pat because Marion sounds gay.

Dani said...

In my opinion, Pat Robertson is a total fraud and does not speak for true Christians.

If God really wanted to, He could simply open up the entire earth and swallow everyone whole because we all have gays living in our cities. There is such a thing as natural disasters - God can do a heck of a lot better than a measly little hurricane.

On to the other topic...
So the school board is forcing students to hear a statement saying evolution is just a theory and that intelligent design was another theory in order to indoctrinate the students with misinformation. How is this in violation of the 1st Amendment?

In addition to teaching evolution, the schools teach and indoctrinate the students with the religion of secular humanism, thus, violating Article I of the Constitution - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

Of course, while the government forbids the worship of Christ or the teaching of "intelligent design" within itself, which is also in violation of Article I, "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." it fiendishly allows and promotes the religion of humanism to reign in its schools.

Oh well, I really don't care anymore what the schools do. This is just one of a thousand reasons why I homeschool my kids. That way I can indoctrinate them with all sorts of horrible things like Creation, God's word, truth and morality. What a wicked mother I am!

The Goddess said...

Oh Santa Vacca!! (tee hee hee) Everyone on my planet has lost it. I feel like I am living in the galactic psych ward...
Anyhoo... just writing you Toady to see if you got the Best Buy Special Edition Gift Set Office Space Box??????????? Oh giddieness and mucho adorations for the crators... You gotta see it, the box is brilliant as hell!!! Sigh... just had to gush. I am inviting Jen and Barb over watch it with me so we can shoot coke OUT of our noses!! Oh it's going to be a blast!! Uhm, that was my "flare"... uh... that's just as funny as it gets right now... I'm sleepy!!
OkILoveYaBye!

Jim said...

I don't know whether or not you are a wicked mother Dani. I do know that if you teach them not to think for themselves you would be. I know Creationism is a theory without a shred of proof. I know Evolution has plenty of it. I believe schools probably don't teach Aristotal's Physics as a "theory" in opposition to Newtonian Physics, because the latter is more parsimonious. The same could be said with Intellectual Design vs Evolution. Evolution is far more parsimonious than ID (and parsimonity is the foundation of science). So teaching ID would be just as foolish as Aristotal's physics. But here is a thought.

How about we let the scientists teach science and the religions teach religion? After all, isn't each group best qualified to teach their own dogma?

If creationism is taught in church, why teach it again in the class room? Just seems like a waste of resources on schools with already too tight budgets.

And besides, if parents don't want their children going to church aren't they already saying they don't want their children to learn creationism?

Ryan said...

This is kinda off topic, but that double murder in PA committed by and 18 year old of his girlfriends parents didn't seem to fit the normal M.O. for a teen killer. This must've really confused the media who just loves to drawl conclusions about students who kill who are "goth" or listen to Maryln Manson.
Remember the murder of Pamela Vitale, the wife of the CA defense attorney? It was covered incessantly by all the cable stations showing how this goth kid, obviously influenced by his music and morbid interests committed this awful crime.
David Ludwig who killed his girlfriends parents is a christian, listens to christian rock music, and had even been to a concert of Pillar (christian rock band) just previous to the murder. Strangely (feigning disbelief), the media has covered this story differently by not drawling any conclusions about music or culture contributing to this crime.
Of course I don't think that the reason he killed was because he was a christian or listened to christian rock, but isn't it funny how the media covers these stories differently when both are senseless and grisly?
And for Dani, if shes out there, the reason I thought to post this was because Ludwig and his girlfriend were both homeschooled...
When a public school kid kills its a reflection of the terrible environment in the public schools, but again it's different when two homeschoolers do it.
Unfortunately for the parents in this country it seems that you can't even expect homeschooling to keep your kid from going down the wrong path.

Toad734 said...

Dani:

As you said with the first amendment, almost every scholar of the 1st amendment would agree that it means the government cannot make laws or policies favoring one religion over another, or force religion unto people within a public forum supported by government funds i.e. public schools.

Secularism is not a religion, nor is humanism; I cannot get tax exempt status for my secular "religion", there are no secular churches. So no, the government isn't supporting one religion over another; but if you feel that in doing so it would be wrong, you now know how we feel.

So which is it; can the government favor one religion over another or not?

Ryan:

I caught that; I didn't know they were into the Christian music scene but I knew they were home schooled Christians and that neither Eminem nor Marilyn Manson was blamed for this one. Marilyn Manson, as shitty as the music may be, doesn't force people to kill. The availability of guns makes it easier for kids to kill but people have been murdering other people since the dawn of time. Our pets listen to the same music we do but they don't go around shooting people. Why? Because people are assholes and they all suck. That is why people kill.

Goddess:

No I don't have the box set, I already own the movie. What is so different about the Box set?

Dani said...

Toad - you said, "almost every scholar of the 1st amendment would agree that it means the government cannot make laws or policies favoring one religion over another, or force religion unto people within a public forum supported by government funds i.e. public schools."

Government schools are by law secular, which means worldly rather than spiritual, or omitting God.

U.S. courts have moved from a generally substantive definition of religion (where the religion must affirm a transcendent deity) to a functional definition of religion even including Secular Humanism.

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has not been consistent in applying its definition of religion to its present interpretation of the 1st Amendment. If the no-establishment clause of the 1st Amendment really means that there should be a wall of separation between religion and the state, why are only theistic religions being forced out of the public square specifically Christianity?

Consider what John J. Dunphy says in The Humanist, 1983:

"The battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: A religion of humanity -- utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to carry humanist values into wherever they teach. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new -- the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism."

Toad734 said...

If what you are saying is true than I could start a secular church and accept donations that would be tax exempt; are you saying that I could do that. I don't see it happening and obviously the Supreme Court agrees with me so I am not the only one.

The reason "Christian principals" are being "forced out" is because in this country Christians are the crazies trying to put their religion on everything and everyone. Sure in places like Saudi Arabia the Christians are the normal ones and the Muslims are the fundamentalist crazies but who are the ones who sneak in the middle of the night and force a plaque of the 10 Commandments onto state property, who are the ones trying to ADD Christian dogma to science class rooms, who are the ones killing, protesting, bombing gay people and abortion clinics and going to war under Gods name? Secularism is under attack from Christianity not the other way around.

How many hate mongering secular shows come on TV every Sunday morning campaigning against Christians and every thing they stand for? None, but I can find countless Christian shows coming out and attacking secularism, me and my way of life. We are the ones who should be paranoid. You are burning our science books now but what's next, us?

The Goddess said...

T~ The box has fun stuff in it and deleted scenes and it's cute and it has flare... oooh... ahhh...

Mike V. said...

Jim:

Creationism is not a theory, it's a belief.
Gravity is a theory.
Evolution is a theory.
Creationism is a cartoon made up to explain something terribly complex.
And apparently, there are enough little minds that need that cartoon to this day..

Dani said...

Toad: I’m sure you could start a secular church and accept donations that would be tax exempt if you wanted to. Wouldn’t hurt to try. If the Supreme Court denies it, you can remind them of the definition of religion they came up with which includes Secular Humanism.

I’m not even going to comment about the “hate mongering secular shows on TV” because it is basic common knowledge that all of the local networks are completely littered with secular values: strong sexual content, partial nudity, gender confusion, dysfunctional homes, vulgar language, homo erotica, and crotch humor flood the tube from daytime dramas to primetime at night. So please don’t tell me that secular television is under attack by Christianity.

The reason "Christian principals" are being "forced out" is because people hate God. Sure there are “crazies” out there, but that is only a small fraction of the population. There are "crazies" of all backgrounds everywhere you go. For the past several decades, people have kicked God out of the classroom, out of the courtroom and out of their lives, and look at where our country is at: Divorce, crime, rebellion, fatherless children, abortion, disease, addiction, disasters, and utter hopeless all plague our nation.

People are so "offended" by Jesus Christ, we can no longer say "Merry Christmas" on a National holiday called Christmas. And don't you dare put the Nativity Scene in the local Christmas parade, because that might offend someone. But no one flinches an inch when we have a "Pride Fest" parade downtown with all sorts of nudity, filth and perversion. Why is that? Why is it that we can watch two homosexuals make-out without a problem, but we are offended by a scene with a baby in a manger?

If "Christians are the crazies" trying to put their religion on everything and everyone, why is America the cesspool for morality? Why are the public schools predominately secular and humanistic in their teachings? Why are divorce rates over 50 percent? Why have 50 Million unborn babies been murdered since 1973? Why do people treat sex as a recreational hobby? Why do all of the museums, textbooks, and national landmarks teach Darwinian theory of evolution and that the earth is billions of years old?

If the Bible really is full of crap like you think it is, then there is no threat in teaching it at school. If everyone is so confident that evolution is a fact, why would it be a threat to teach intelligent design? Isn’t it a little odd for people to get so defensive over something they believe is an absolute fact?

You see, I am confident in the truth of God regardless of what is taught in the science classroom. Evolution is no threat to my way of thinking, in fact the very notion of random chance and natural selection according to Darwin are laughable concepts to me. You can burn all the Bibles you want and my faith would not be faltered. If the “science” behind evolution is credible, who cares is the books get burned? If the Bible really has no merit whatsoever, then there is nothing to worry about. BUT....if the Bible really is the word of God, like people claim it is, you should be paranoid!

It is obvious you are an intelligent man John, but you really have to start thinking for yourself in order to reach your true potential. Most of Americans have been systematically brainwashed and dumbed-down by the government school system and today they choose to be willfully ignorant and believe a lie over the truth!

God warns about this in the Bible in 2 Thessalonians 2:11:
“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

You are right when you say that secularism is under attack from Christianity. While Americans have embraced a secular worldview today, a lie cannot sustain itself forever. The Truth Will Prevail & God Will Not Be Mocked!!!

Toad734 said...

The shows you speak of may not embrace Christian values (who wants to see a bunch of nerds in long skirts talking about Jesus) but they don't attack, mock, judge, boycott or seek to silence Christianity as the Christian shows and radio programs do with secular society. Why do they care if I watch to lesbians kiss? How does that affect their lives? If they don't want their children to see it then don't let them watch it, don't let them have cable and internet in their room, don't have cable, or don't have a TV. It's very easy to avoid watching TV shows about "perverts" and even easier to avoid bringing a TV into your house if that is what offends you. I notice you didn't mention all the death, blood and destruction that is created by this country everyday so are you saying that it is ok for kids to love war as long as it they don't love each other?

And I also find it interesting that you bring up how addiction, fatherless children, crime, and divorce plague our nation due to the absence of god in our lives. The Bible belt, for your information, leads the country in crime, children born out of wedlock and divorce. I could very easily make the conclusion that God, Christianity or Protestants cause all these things. In other words the addition of God doesn't seem to make a difference or maybe even makes situations worse based on the data.

If I think a book is crap I don't think I would want that taught in schools.

Ryan said...

Dani- I think you forgot about reality tv in your description of the terrible stuff on the television. We get all worked up to preserve the santity of marriage so that we can watch two midgets (of different sexes) take their vows, or complete strangers marry for money, or the shows where families wife swap and baby swap. What does this do to the sanctity of the family?

Also many of these shows are broadcast on conservative networks like FOX which brings up more questions. Does FOX and Sinclair push these types of shows just so that they will have a boogie man to slay every night on their so called News shows? Do they use this to get their right leaning viewers fired up when they are at the same time pushing the same shows.

Mike V. said...

Dani, if America is a cesspool for morality now, can you please point me to a time in our history when we were more moral?
Thanks.

Mike V. said...

One more question Dani:
If you don't think that the universe is billions of years old, how do you explain the distance of the stars?
Thanks.

Toad734 said...

Dani:

Mike brings up some good points; was this nation better off in the good ol days when women weren't allowed to leave their husbands who were cheating on them, when we hosed black people down for wanting to vote, or when we had slaves, or when everyone in the west carried a gun and shot people for snoring too loud, or when the government could ruin your life when they thought you were a communist or when looking at a white woman in the Christian south (Bible Belt)was a death sentence for a little black kid, or when we lynched people without trials, when we burned "witches" or when women were forced to have unwanted children even though they were raped? Is that the "walk with God" period of our histroy you refer to or were you talking about humanity back during lets say the crusades where "religious people" went around killing other religious people because they were a different religion?

And yes the point about the stars is a good one; since the universe expanding in all directions, and we know this thanks to science and a scientist named Hubble, we know that something set the universe in that direction, something big, something powerful to still see the effects of it 13 billion years later. We also know how fast we are all moving, and how fast we have moved throughout time, and can determine that if the universe is only 10,000 years old would still be a big mess of extremely hot atoms at the near center of the universe.

If the universe was created with a whisper and not a bang, then wouldn't the universe, due to gravity, be collapsing on itself, not expanding? What Biblical evidence do you have to explain the inertia of the universe away from the gravitational pull of the rest of the universe? Big Bang can explain it but the Bible can't.

And is it also a coincidence that when the Big Bang theory was first introduced that they predicted they would eventually find the existence of cosmic background radiation, the radio remnant of the Big Bang, and then 20 years later thanks to microwave antennas there it was? No microwave antennas have picked up the echos of God saying "and it was good".

Boiled Owl said...

Whoops! Hold on a second, the Big Bang can't explain it either folks. That's why they're putting a Neutrino Lab out here a mile under ground in an abondon Gold Mine. Seems if the Big Bang really went down, there should be more matter in the universe than there appears to be. It's a head scratcher. Maybe it's locked up in the Lost Ark of the Covenant!

Toad734 said...

Owl:

Dark Matter; its there you just can't see it.

Mike V. said...

True, Owl.
But two items that cannot be refuted by the young universe whackos:
The Speed of light.
The distance of stars from us.

Well, I have heard one explanation from a young universe kook: God made the stars look old and far away.
At that point, the argument is through because you are dealing with someone not firing on all cylinders..

Boiled Owl said...

Oh, I'm not trying to give any creedence to the "young universe" model. Far from it. I believe in the speed of light, but I do think it's possible to exceed it, and I think that's exactly what some of the "stuff" did when the Big B went off. It's in the future, leaking back, and causing the universe to speed up and expand out. Like ripples in a pond, bouncing off the shore and moving back in. It's easier for me to get than string theory. I can draw it out on a Feynman diagram if you like.

NewsBlog 5000 said...

The problem with trying to disprove creation is that there is no way to disprove the twin arguments of "Science is wrong" and "God made it that way to test our faith." There's no way to prove it either, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Science tells us fossils are millions of years old
Science is wrong. They fell off the Ark.

Light has been coming to the planet Earth for longer than you say the Universe has existed.
God made it that way to test our faith. And He wanted us to see lots of pretty stars.

Dani said...

Toad: We don't want our children to see the crap on TV so we don't let them watch it. We don't have cable and we have only one TV which is in the basement and our children are allowed to watch videos we approve of - just so ya know!

I was already aware that the Bible belt leads the country in crime, children born out of wedlock and divorce. The "Bible belt" folks are the most hypocritical of all and they will be judged the worst by God, rest assured.

So the main question you want answered is this:

How can light get to us from stars which are millions of light-years away in a universe which the Bible claims is only thousands of years old? => READ HERE

Assuming that will not be a sufficient explanation, you will willfully maintain your ignorance and continue to believe a lie over the truth. So what more can I say?

At some point I have to stop throwing my pearls to swine.

According to your belief of naturalism, the universe has no purpose and no interest whether or not there is life in it. Logically, we should not even be here. In fact, modification of laws of physics almost always results in universes that don't even contain matter!

Hey Mike - Maybe you can explain some of these unproven ideas about the Big bang theory?

Nothing gave rise to something at an alleged ‘big bang.’ Non-living matter gave rise to life. Single-celled organisms gave rise to many-celled organisms. Invertebrates gave rise to vertebrates. Ape-like creatures gave rise to man. Non-intelligent and amoral matter gave rise to intelligence and morality. Man’s yearnings gave rise to religions, etc.

Any thoughts?

Mike V. said...

Dani, science can only do this:
Observe and apply the scientific method.
The web page that you reference has nothing to do with science at all.
Worst of all, it doesn't even mention the most simple measurement of distance: paralax.
Nor does it mention the very simple method of measuring the age of our own sun. Which is an energy source. And as a source of energy, it's output and depletion can be measured. Thus its age.
Whether or not God created all of this is irrellvant to the scientist making observations.
The Bible tells us that the sky is a firmament.
That the earth revolves around the sun, etc.. All of which has been disproved.
Applying what amounts to philosophy to science makes no sense.

Marie's Two Cents said...

Burning a Flag is NOT an appropriate thing to do in this Country! If you feel the need to do so LEAVE!!! That is NOT a right. It must have been a Liberal who set the flag afire!!
OoOOOOOoooooOO Can I get on your "Give them some shit" List? Lmmfao!!!

Toad734 said...

Mike:

I don't think any one has disproved that the earth revolves around the sun.

TwoCents:
The guy in the picture is a Republican who voted to have our tax dollars teach the bible in public schools. If that doesn't sound strange, odd or unconstitutional to you how about this: I propose a law making churches teach evolution; you know both sides should be represented.

And flag burning is appropriate if that's what you feel like doing. You people forget what country we are in and about that thing called the constitution and our bill of rights. If you want to live in a country that does not allow freedom of expression and punishes people for demonstrating their grievances with the government then you are the one who should move. I hear Saudi Arabia is nice this time of year; that sounds like a place you may be more comfortable in since you obviously hate freedom, the American way and everything our founding fathers stood for. It must be hard being so blind. I am going to guess you are one of those people who pick and choose what parts of the constitution you decide to listen to; I’ll bet you see having a machine gun as a right but protesting the President is not a right (unless he's a Godless Democrat)? Am I correct in that assumption?

Toad734 said...

Dani:

The first problem with your friend’s theories is that they don't make observations to draw their conclusions; they start with an answer and work backwards. They point out all the stuff that could give weight to their theory and ignore the stuff that disproves it.

Is the speed of light always constant in all environments and situations? Maybe not, but to go from 13 billion years to 10,000 years by saying the speed of light has changed over time would take, well, a miracle. Could a black hole or some other force near the path of light alter its speed, or even our perception of the speed of light? Sure, it’s possible, but that would only account for the age of one particular heavenly body in its relation to us, but not the light reaching us from all different directions. And sure maybe at the time of the big bang, or the beginning of the universe, the speed of light was faster and us measuring red shifting based on 186,282 miles per hour would give us a wrong answer as to the age of the universe. If that is the case then where are the calculations showing this mystery speed, how fast it was, how long it lasted, how long it took to slow down to the current speed of light and then the age of the universe using those variables? I am no astronomer but I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest that the speed of light was faster than it is today. Although I don’t see why something couldn’t be faster than the speed of light, including light itself, many people including Einstein, think that the speed of light, is as fast anything could ever travel. I think with that, he is saying that light at its current speed could not be exceeded; even by “faster” light. I think.

And if you want to say that God sped up light at the beginning time and he put fossils in stones to just test our faith then I cannot carry on this conversation.

Two Minutes J said...

Ok assholes, heres what really happened: The Universe happened in some sort of Big Bang. Life was an accident. One of these lifeforms was a group of Extraterrestrials and a guy named Colonel Sanders. So, a long time ago "God" and Colonel Sanders got together and decided that they wanted to create a place with lifeforms where Colonel Sanders could test his recipes and "God" could use these people as some sort of sick experiment. "God" is actually this group of aliens (see also: ancient Sumerian texts and writings for explanation on the original meaning of the word 'God'), in case you didn't catch that. They are now referred to as 'The Annunaki'..So anyways, they needed slaves for a bunch of different reasons and so they colonized on earth (mixing the DNA of ape-like creatures with Aliens to create the human race, hence the reason we've found no missing link), and in turn Colonel Sanders could sell his chicken. God Damn, Colonel Sanders does make some fire-ass chicken.

Dani said...

Mike -
Regarding your comment about the Scientific Method, perhaps you should put all FIVE steps of The Scientific Method to the test with the theory of evolution and other random chance events! If anyone on this earth had a powerful human imagination, it was Charles Darwin. Darwinian theory cannot be scientifically proven because scientific claims must be testable. If there is no way to tell whether a theory is true or not, it is not a scientific theory.

Scientifically and logically we know that a rock cannot create itself out of nothing and a fire cannot burn forever. So your “Big Bang” theory is logically impossible.

Read here about => How are star distances measured?

Find out => How old is the Earth?

More stuff on => GOD & SCIENCE

Toad734 said...

So is your theory of God:
Scientifically and logically we know that a BEING cannot create itself out of nothing and a fire cannot live forever. So your “Big GOD” theory is logically impossible.

There are plenty of things about evolutionary theory that are testable. I have already been through a lot of those. For instance the percentage of DNA that is identical between humans and apes is one. The existence of cosmic background radiation as I have already mentioned, which wasn't testable at the time the big bang theory was introduced.

Why is it so hard to believe a clump of mass just formed out of nothing, or has always been there, or was the remnants of a universe that collapsed on itself, but you think that a powerful, close to perfect, complex being could appear out of nowhere on its own? Your argument against evolution supports our argument that the spontaneous existence of God is impossible.

I refuse to click a link labeled God&Science; that is an oxymoron and the two simply don't go together. Oh, wait, is God publishing science books now because I don't remember much about astronomy, atoms and molecules, chemistry, anatomy or quantum physics from the Bible.

Thanks for proving my point that something as complex as God couldn't have just appeared out of nothingness, especially since something as simple as molten rock couldn’t have just formed on its own.

Again, you have your answer before you even ask the question, as do all your creation scientists. That isn't how Newton did it.

Dani said...

It is becoming more and more apparent that you, Toad, do share the same DNA as an ape. This conversation is useless since you are so willfully ignorant!

And for the record =>
Apes and Humans share only 93% DNA

Toad734 said...

Without spending more than three minutes reading and pondering your "How Old is the Earth" link I will briefly brush over why they are wrong. If you want be to put hours of research into it and discuss it amongst people who are educated in these fields I suppose I could but just off the top of my head I don't think it's going to take that much effort:

1. They point to a few unfossilized Dinosaur bones that have been found as proof dinosaurs lived among humans.
Well they are right, Komodo Dragons, Crocodiles, and Megamouth sharks could all be considered Dinosaurs or relatives and decedents of Dinosaurs. What they forget is that almost every true dinosaur bone they find is fossilized and is well over 10,000 years old.

I would also challenge your creation scientist to find Human remains in the same strata (which is millions of years old itself) where dinosaur bones are found. Trust me they won’t be able to do it.

2. They say the sea isn't salty enough. I don't know why today’s rate of salination means that it has always salinated at the same rate but I will remind them that most of the ocean was ice for a very long time and it is kind of hard to mix ice and salt together.

3. They say due to radioactive decay there isn't enough Helium in our atmosphere to explain this decay over millions of years. A few things are wrong with this. First you have to realize that radioactive decay is random and is not predictable; therefore the rate of the helium byproduct of this decay is not reliable or predictable and as I said, random.
Second, not everything that is currently decaying now was old enough to decay at the same rate millions of years ago so there wasn't as much around then, thus this rate of Helium production would be different than it is today.
Third, along with some rocks Helium gets trapped in with Natural Gas and has to be manually extracted in order for it to release. So, some of your missing Helium is collecting in the Natural Gas reserves.
Finally, as any Clown knows Helium can be absorbed through the lungs so I am assuming that the more people you have the more you helium absorption you would have, kind of like trees and Carbon Dioxide. So maybe the Helium is being released but it is being absorbed.

4. The magnetic field is not decaying; it is flipping polarity! I've heard this before and I don't know how your people miss this. Why are there so many magnetic anomalies, missing ships, planes etc. in a place like the Bermuda Triangle? Because the magnetic fields there mess with the magnets in directional instruments such as compasses. There are magnetic hot spots and places with less all throughout the world. There is a place in Indiana where liquids will run up a hill. Someday soon true magnetic north, which has been moving since the discovery of the North Pole, will flip and magnetic north will actually be in the South Pole. Some people say it had been in the same sort of transition period preceding the age of exploration and that the stabilizing of magnetic north made it possible to finally navigate the seas without having to bounce off ice shelf’s and land masses in order to navigate.

5 The moon is still here, of course it is. Do they have proof that the Moon has always been drifting further a part? No one really knows how the moon formed for sure but the fact that it is drifting away proves that if God made the moon something would have had to knock it out of our gravitational pull enough to allow it to slip away. Why would God design a moon that would float away and destroy humanity with floods yet again when he already promised he would never flood the Earth again?

6. Lack of Erosion? Is that a joke? Look at the Grand Canyon, look at the Mississippi Delta and tell me there is no erosion.

Come back when you find human remains and civilization remains, from the era before or during the Cambrian explosion.

Then explain that why the further down we go in the strata layers, the more ape like early human fossils get.

NewsBlog 5000 said...

I think even if we were only 95% similar to the chimpanzee, it is not exactly and "AH HA" moment for creationism.

But we are not.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4197844.stm

Toad734 said...

The lowest I have ever heard was 95% though I think the common consensus is about 98%. Either way there is no other creature on this planet that is closer and that at least says something. We are a lot closer to Apes than Angels or God, Oh wait, we don't have any fossils or evidence of Angels or God so we can't test my "theory".

Two Minutes J said...

Ok, but this still doesn't explain Colonel Sanders.

Dani said...

You win Toad!

There is no God! There no proof for anything! Everything that exists is just a cosmic accident!

Happy now!

Boiled Owl said...

Dani, for confirmation of Toad's estimate on shared DNA see Jared Diamond's book "The Third Cimpanzee"We share over 98% of the same DNA.

Not to worry though, we share over 60% of our DNA with sponges and Bananas. That's the way life is.

Everything is part of everything else and made out of everything else. That's pretty spiritual if you think about it. The question to be asking is now if it's the same DNA, but why we have DNA in the first place.

Afterall, DNA is an inert (dead) molecule. It is not a living thing, it just makes other things into living things so it can keep making copies of itself. That's all it does, copy, copy, copy. How did that happen. And why?

Another good book is "A Brief History of Everything" by Bill Bryson. Plenty of room for the spiritually inclined in these books, by the way, but in a whole new, amazing context.

Life is a dazzling miracle, even if you know all the science. We don't have to make up fairy tales, it's amazing enough just the way it is!

Toad734 said...

Dani:

Actually proving Genesis and the Creationists wrong doesn't prove that their isn't a God, or that he didn't set evolution in motion.

I personally don't believe that he did because there isn't any evidence of it and then you still have to explain how a "perfect being" appeared out of thin air one day. Who created this perfect being?

So if anything we have said here makes you question you beliefs don't worry about it; there can still be a God and you can still be a Christian if you believe in evolution and the big bang.

Again, back to the point; with 0 evidence why would you want that taught in school? You wouldn't want your kids to be taught Greek Mythology as fact or even a credible theory would you? Why? Because there is no evidence of it and it was a primitive cultures attempt to explain the cosmos and their origins.

NewsBlog 5000 said...

Dani

I know plenty of very religious people who do not rely on such literal interpretations of narrow sections of the bible to defend their faith. They believe in evolution as accepted science and creationism as part of their faith, and they believe the two are not contradictory. They don't have to scour the internet for pseudo-science to feel closer to God.

However, most of them do believe I am going straight to hell, or may already be possessed. I am so sure there is no God in the Christian sense that I am willing to wager the possibility that my "immortal soul" will burn in agony for all eternity. I could hedge my bets and pretend to myself that I believe, but that just wouldn't be honest, and any all-knowing entity would see right through it.

As far as the seven (or six) days of creation go, listen to this piece of Hindu creationist faith.

When Brahma has created the world it remains in existence for one of his days, which comes to a period of 4,320,000,000 years in terms of Hindu calendar. When Brahma goes to sleep after the end of his day, the world and all that is therein is consumed by fire. When he awakes he again restores the whole creation. This goes on till the hundred years of Brahma's life are completed.

Boiled Owl said...

newsblog 5000: I think you might be referring to "Pascal's Wager." For a long time that idea was used to justify one's faith. But Pascal's wager expired when the number of available "Gods" and religions grew exponentially with the rise of Protestantism and communications technology. Pascal's Wager is rational only if you have an "either/or" choice, not thousands of choices. I think Toad's right, let's save our faith and belief for ideas that are supported by evidence, and agree to just "wonder" together about the rest, if for no other reason than that it's a much more peaceful and honest position for us to take with each other.

Considering that there is 98% of our DNA shared with Chimps is one thing, but no one argues that we share 100% of it with our fellow humans. That means we need to be all about taking care of "the family" right. Family values? Hard to have those when you insist on demonizing and damning people who don't agree with you.

NewsBlog 5000 said...

Well, boiled, I think you got something different from my comments than what I intended. I have been told that I sound patronizing or condescending when I talk about religion. I don't mean to be, and I apologize. I just sometimes have trouble putting such large concepts into words.

I think I could argue that many faiths (and followers thereof) believe that there is only one choice "with us or against us". Perhaps I should also state that if I did believe in a higher power, I would also believe that the path you take is a matter of choice.

I was merely trying to make the point that although I am not a person who believes in "higher powers", I know and respect people who do. I don't think they're stupid for believing in God. Those people do not find their beliefs incompatible with science. DNA, evolution, the microchip can exist in a Universe with god.

Theology currently has no connection with science, but what did we know about nuclear bonds 200 years ago? Modern science can even turn lead into gold. I hope someday they do prove me wrong. I want them to. Even so, I still don't believe that some supernatural demon is licking his chops and waiting to skewer me with a pitchfork.

Frankly, some days, I look at the wonders of nature (sunsets, autumn leaves, lesbian porn) and I wonder if I am not wrong. But I know myself, and I know that it is more likely that I want to be wrong and I want there to be a higher power.



There, you all have made be serious twice now. Do you see how big a mistake that is?

Boiled Owl said...

I like it when you're serious, newsblog 5000. You express feelings that may of us have been wanting to say for years. Thanks!

Mike V. said...

I'll ask this again of Dani:
If you are going to take the literal interpretation of the bible, when are we going to start applying that to math and physics classes?

Richard Gumsley said...

I enjoyed reading your articles. This is truly a great read for me.
astrologer Orlando