Friday, February 10, 2012

The Immacualte Contraception

Ok, it looks like Obama, as always, is going to pussy out and bow down to the conservatives from the 13th Century and relax his mandate on religious organizations (not Churches since they were always exempt) to provide health coverage which will include contraception.

Here is why he is wrong:

The Catholic (or any) Church is NOT required to provide contraception. Only when they enter the business world and open hospitals which employ people of other faiths and in many cases with doctors(the ones who aren't Jewish, Muslim and Hindu), of no faith. So basically it's not the government intruding, it's the government FORBIDDING the church from forcing their positions on the employees of these other entities such as hospitals and Catholic Charities who aren't Catholic. The constitution is clear that the government can't respect an establishment of religion and by allowing them to discriminate against others and enforce their views unto other, they are empowering the Vatican...Which is kind of what we were getting away from when we founded America. The Pilgrims left England because all people were forced to attend the Church of England and were fined when they didn't...They didn't want someone elses view forced down their throats so they left. Do we really want all our nurses and doctors to leave because a religion is forcing their views upon them??

The Vatican doesn't have to run hospitals or even have the monopoly on hospitals in many communities and can decide to get out of the hospital business and stay in the church business. And there are many secular charities and hospitals in the world...We don't need them!

And my main problem behind this "religious belief" is that Jesus never prohibited contraception...So to try to say their religious freedom is being infringed upon is a stretch since there is no real source for this belief... There is no real Biblical precedent for this tenant of their faith. If you were wondering, here is where they get it (note that it isn't from Jesus or the New Testament) here it is:

Genisis 38:9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Note the phrase, "slew him ALSO".

So, to put it into context, this these are the verses just before that:

Genesis38: 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.

8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

So yes, God killed a dude after he spurted on the ground but he also killed the woman's husband because he LOOKED wicked...So if that is the precedent, then Rick Santorum now has the right to kill anyone who "looks wicked".

And just like Lot's wife, he smote them NOT because of the thing they did (looking at Sodom and Gomorrah in of itself isn't a sin) but because they disobeyed a direct command from god. That is why Lot's wife and the dude who spooged on the ground were killed, not for contraception or looking at a city.

And let's not forget that Christians follow Christ, Jews follow the first 5 books of the Old Testament...Christians don't remember the Sabbath and cease to do work on Saturday's, they shave their beards and eat shellfish and pork...All things prohibited in the Old Testament as well...Why pick and chose?? Who says which one should be followed and which one shouldn't?? I think it's convenient to chose this one and the gay thing because both of them = no babies which = no future parishioners to add to the collection plate (and or children for them to fuck) and both allow the church to exert control over others.

So their theology behind the issue is completely flawed and is precisely the reason most other religions don't have a problem with contraception...And might I add, that another form of preventing conception and birth control would be jizzing on an altar boys face so let's talk about the pot and kettle here for a minute. So to even try to get away with this under the banner of a religious belief is a stretch to begin with since it is never actually condemned in the Bible...But then again, neither is taxing the rich, abortion or gay marriage...

And you could even take it a step further can say they want to discriminate against women in general if they provide Men in their organizations full health coverage and Women only partial coverage...After all, child birth can still be a life and death situation...Women still die from child birth so to say contraception doesn't fall under health care is ridiculous. Not to mention all the physical changes that happens to a Woman's body after giving birth...They are typically never the same. So by not providing Women with full coverage as you would a Man, that is a clear violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So this can be challenged on many different levels.

And if the government IS to allow them to discriminate against women then they must then allow any Muslim owned business to force women to cover their heads at work, allow Rastafarians to smoke marijuana, Stanists to kill goats or even allow Mormons to practice polygamy...That is if the freedom or religion is absolute...And if it is, why do Quakers and other pacifists have to have their tax dollars go to pay for wars? But as will all amendments, nothing is absolute all the time. 5 year olds cant walk into a gun store and buy Uzis, I can't yell fire in a crowded theater, nor can someone publish complete lies about me in a news paper.

So, the question is, should Muslim businesses be allowed to force their employees to wear the bee keepers outfits?? If no, the no has to be the answer with regards to Catholics withholding birth control...Not that the Catholic organization themselves would actually have to hand out condoms and morning after pills, but merely allow their health insurance companies provide such coverage.

Irony time:
A. A lot of orphanages and foster programs are run by the Catholic church

B. Contraception prevents abortion!

If you are against contraception, you are FOR abortion...And from the 13th Century...And an idiot.

And Africa listened to the Vatican with regards to Condoms and look where it got them...1.3 Million deaths from AIDS every year, 5% of the population infected...Yes, let's listen to the folks that brought us The Spanish Inquisition, AIDS in Africa, Genocide in South America, The Crusades and child fucking!


Patrick M said...

Always interesting how you take facts, and then twist them to mean the exact opposite of what they mean.

So let's begin:
...[0]bama... is going to... relax his mandate on religious organizations (not Churches since they were always exempt) to provide health coverage which will include contraception.

I just want to be clear that you're in agreement with the idea that the government has the power to force an organization (or individual) to do something that violates the members' dictates of their conscience.

First, and most importantly, there's a reason the first amendment specifically forbids the government from interfering in the free exercise of religion. Because there will always be people with different beliefs and ideas who would otherwise enforce them on the population as a whole. This is what the specific rule (and the modification) by 0bama does: compels insurance to provide coverage for contraception.

Now, in the Dogma of the Catholic Church, this is unacceptable. Whether we (or the majority of the Catholic population) agree with their 13th-century view or not doesn't matter, because that is a matter of faith. Another example is the exemption for the Amish. They are wholly exempted from buying insurance by the dictate of their faith.

So let's take the faith out of this, and look why it's still wrong.

Now, the second is the faulty argument about employment. The government has the power to intervene on behalf of employees in specific incidences of discrimination, mainly over protected things like race, sex, religious affiliation, etc. Discrimination is, in essence, setting different rules, forms of compensation, etc, for different groups. In offering or not offering contraception for anyone, this is not discrimination. They're applying the same rules to anyone.

This is where you veer off the furthest from reality. Health care is a compensation package. Compensation is something that is contractually agreed to by the employer and employee at the time of hiring, and modified during any term of employment. The employer (subject to some government bullshit already) may offer the prospective employee whatever they want, and the employee may either accept, reject, or negotiate on that point. The idea that the government can dictate what and how you compensate you employees (other than on grounds of discrimination) takes freedom out of the equation altogether.

So as a result of 0bama's pussying out (not that he did), all insurance companies are being forced to cover contraception rather than the Catholic organizations being forced to cover it. it amounts to the smae thing: the 0bama administration (in this case) substituting their own morality in direct violation of the First damned Amendment. As a result, expect the Catholics to drop health care altogether, and start paying the government penalty (tax) for not buying their mandated product.

But the biggest problem is that we shouldn't even be having this discussion, because the problem is caused by the government fucking around with things they shouldn't.

Now before you start arguing, imagine everything above stays the same, except substitute a particularly frothy nightmare: President Santorum mandating that no health insurance can cover contraception because it might cause an abortion.

Consider what any law can do in the hands of people you despise politically.

Toad734 said...

"that the government has the power to force an organization (or individual) to do something that violates the members' dictates of their conscience"

You mean like using my tax dollars for an illegal war??

Or using my tax dollars to fund faith based organizations?

Or forbidding Methodist Churches from marrying same sex couples??

I just want to be clear that you are for one religion forcing it's beliefs unto others?? That is your stance? That is what you think is ok?? So Muslims in America can force Women of other faiths to cover their heads?? If that's the society you want to live in, I would suggest a move to the Middle East.

The government is not interfering with Religion...Again, no church is forced to provide contraception. But what the 1st Amendment also does is protect individuals from the religious tyranny of others. It makes it so NO ONE has to live under neath anyone elses religious edicts.

And right, like you said, makes INSURANCE COMPANIES provide contraception in their plans; not the religious affiliated organization itself.

In offering or not offering contraception for anyone, this is not discrimination. They're applying the same rules to anyone.

As I said, this isn't just about birth control pills...Women can still die in child birth...If preventing one from dying ISN'T essential health care, I don't know what is. And again, if you are providing Men with full coverage (prostate exams for instance) but not women, then that is most certainly discrimination...Not to mention what it says about the status of women who should have no say in their reproductive lives and should be happy being baby dispensers. But then again, it's religion so of course that is what they are saying.

Again, Obama is NOT forcing his morality on anyone, he is PROTECTING individuals from having the morality of others forced unto them. This is a stand against religious tyranny, not tyranny against religion.

Ya, the government shouldn't have ever passed the civil rights act because every employer in this country should be able to chose to discriminate against whomever they want and refuse to hire Catholics or blacks or whatever...and then, can even force their employees to do any type of silly shit since it's "their right".

Ummm, again, contraception PREVENTS abortion, not causes it. I don't think there is ANY contraception out there that causes abortion...The morning after pill doesn't even do that...It merely prevents pregnancy.